This is a picture of the junction of Outram Road and Albert Road. After years of austerity I am assuming that the local authority has gone for tarmac as it's a cheaper option than replacing broken paving stones. But it doesn't look good and does nothing to improve the street scene.
You need to be a member of Alexandra Park Neighbours to add comments!
To add a post - click on +Add new Post at top right (if it is not there, you are not signed in - see link at top of page); fill in the details, then click on black button below.
To later edit it, click on the post header to display it, then on +Edit at top right.
If you wish to give somebody your contact details, you may prefer to do so by personal message (click on little envelope at top of page, then on +Compose) rather than putting it in a post which is visible to everyone.
Click on an advert for more info.
FORUM CATEGORIES
Click on a category to display all posts that have been allocated this category:
Sharing stuff other than tools
Items offered / wanted - for sale or for free
Campaigns and community action
How-to Guides to using this website
Traffic, roads, public transport
Policing, community safety and anti-social behaviour
Local shops, cafes and businesses
Gardening - help, advice, issues, news
Recipes - Food
Recipes and tips - Health and Beauty
Schools, health, caring and parenting
Parks and wildlife, palaces and communal spaces
Replies
I have also received a response about root pruning and root walls from the Tree Officer:
Dear all - apologies for not responding directly to the orginal forum post, there all nested and I have not been able to find them. A couple of updates from me:
1) I had forwarded Indjiana's comments on the refirbishement of the Triange and officers have agreed to carried out an inspection on the quality of works ('Thank you for bringing these resident concerns to our attention. I have passed this on to the relevant team in our service for them to undertake an inspection, as requested.') I am waiting to hear when this will happen, and will let you know when I have an udpate
2) the road maintenance has not been included officially in next year internal audit plan bit I have been reassured is in a reserve queue in case any of the other audits takes less number of days than planned. I have also been told that highway maintenance was audited 3 years ago and the assessmant was 'Adeguate'.
Outram Road Paving
The response from the council is totally inadequate. I have lived in Outram Road for 42 years and in that whole time we have NEVER had new slab paving to replace the old and cracked slabs, just occasional replacement slabs and now tarmac. To say this is the fault of the tree roots is an excuse. Other roads have had new paving- Victoria Road, Crescent Road and Princes Avenue to name a few. I was actually promised Outram Road would be on the programme for next year and that was in 2011! I have watched an elderly neighbour in a wheelchair struggle with paving slabs that are a health and safety hazard before he died, and now try to push my granddaughter in her push chair on this terrible and dangerous surface. It is the whole length of the road. The tarmac is an insult to us council tax payers who deserve safe and decent street paving outside our homes.
Dear Councillor Rossetti please take this back to the council and fight our corner for us. It was Cllr Juliet Solomon who took up the case for me in 2011 without any success. Thank you. Katie Chilton no. 57
I remember the Outram Rd paving was an issue highlighted by the Liberal Democrats in the 2014 local election campaign Katie because, with sections of Victoria Rd, Outrtam Rd had the worst pavements in the ward. The reason why it was not given attention is that:
(i) the Council give priority to high footfall areas and areas of high visibility (I live in Palace Gates Rd that gets used a lot);
(ii) the number of complaints the Council receive for each locality influences their set priorities as does the number of injuries for which pedestrians seek compensation from the Council;
(iii) local campaigns (like the one in Dukes Ave a few years back) can speed up the responses from the Council, especially if run in election years.
My gripe is that despite numerous repairs and two resurficing works in the past two decades (one was done as part of the failed traffic calming scheme), the pavements in PGRd are again in unsafe state. That is due to poor quality of workmanship and/or materials. Likewise in Outram Rd. If we affect the change for better in Outram Rd, we shall all profit from it.
I suspect the Council are guilty of short-termism and are indulging in false economies. Residents see the newly laid/repaired pavement and are grateful and remember it in the ballot box. They do not consider the quality of the work because they do not have the technical knowledge with which to assess the work. Which is why I am boring you all with complaints about the quality.
Thank you Alessandra. I have tried to use the Council Feedback Service, but the sight does not allow for a feedback on the works done - just an official complaint which would be assessed by an ombudsman. As there is an ongoing process of Q and A via your offices, it would be premature to resort to it. I do not know to how the Council evaluate the residents' satisfaction for the work done on our pavements from the site they provide. I may have missed something.
Katie, Indijana - thanks for these further comments. I am still chasing answers to the orginal feedback but I have asked officers to address these too - it seems it takes longer and longer than the two week. I fully agree on everything is mentioned, and expecially on the power of complaining formally on the state of pavements and quality of repairs. As you may have seen the council is now directing residents to use the online form, or phone/visit to customer centres rather than emails but this would certainly be helpuf to Councillors too to make clear how strongly this isssue is felt. [see https://www.haringey.gov.uk/contact/council-feedback] . As I have seen this patching and rework going on across the whole of Alexandra I have asked for pavements and road works to be included in the Council Audit Plan. Hope this will be considered and to be able to give you an update soon.
Thank you Alessandra.
The Council do not confirm that the tarmac is a temporary solution. They can't possibly consider this patching anything but.
I find their whole reply baffling and inadequate.
First: Tarmac, when properly laid, needs an underlay of hardcore and requires a greater depth than flagstones (unlike concrete flags, it is susceptible to damage from frost). Also, the workmen must have noticed the shallow roots when laying the pavement and should not have carried the work out without taking measures to ensure the paving did not rise and crack months later.
Second: "An extensive tender process" is a meaningles phrase without further explanations. What was the criteria? In which order? (e.g. overall cost, type and quality of the materials, timetable, guarantees and expectations for durability follow up works etc...). Floating/non-rigid pavements should last between 20 and 40 years, depending on the quality of work and materials, the usage, etc. In the near 30 years that I have lived in my house our pavement has been completely resurfaced twice and repaired numerous times. That in itself is an indication of poor work we have received over the years. What is the Council going to do to increase the durability of the newly laid pavements?
Third: How are the works inspected? On what basis are they deemed satisfactory? Either the original work was not satisfactory, necessitating this ugly repair job. Or the repair was not done properly. Or the repair is temporary.
Fourth: the Council have no published guidelines on highway works and other works that we residents could consult when making queries and complaints. As an illustration, see the Kent Council guide (https://www.kent.gov.uk/about-the-council/strategies-and-policies/s...). Note that the term "pavement" is used here for carriageways surfacing. I chose this one because it is more informative than most. But a lot of councils provide some form of publically accessible explanations of their procedures.
HI all, I have finally got an answer from Haringey Council about the pavements, the work quality assessment, procurement and warranty from the initial repair . Here iit is, with the pictures referred into the response:
This was reactive work to trip hazards. Following a safety inspection, it is the Council’s responsibility to make the highway safe. There were tree roots pushing the slabs up creating trip hazards. There was no choice but to use tarmac in this instance as there is not enough depth to lay paving slabs. Please see photos of this area before the work was delivered. The quality of the work is satisfactory.. They will only be paid after the works have been completed to our satisfaction. We only use black tarmac in our reactive work orders. This highways term contract was awarded through an extensive tender process.
In 2023/24 we are developing a short sections programme for such works, and this will be added to the list of potential schemes, all subject to prioritising against other demands from this budget. A proposal may entail reconstructing with slabs where possible, trimming the tree roots and a flexipave system squaring off the works extents.
This area of Outram Road was built more than 10 years ago and unfortunately tree roots are growing and pushing the slabs up. The broken slabs were as a direct result of the roots.
For the time being I have gone back to the officer and asked about why only black tarmac and, following the recommandation of the Canadian guideline, I have asked if root barriers, root pruning or segmental flexible pavements have been considered. Also, given that most damage seems to be preventable with some proper root mainatance and that Haringey Tree Maintenance has receievd only limited reassurance at the Q2 internal audit last year, I have asked also confirmation about the next steps to improve tree maintenance and the last current schedule.
Please let me know if there is any firther comment or question I can raise?
May I add that the notice board on the Triangle between the Palace Gates Road and Crescent Rd got damaged during the repaving work and remains unrepaired.
A far too large quantity of flagstones was delivered in one go and stored right by the notice board. Their weight caused the ground to sag and the the notice board got bent out of place. It is no longer upright but leaning towards the pavement.
We do not know what pipes run underneath and if any of them may have got damaged. We have in the past had gas leaks, water leaks and even sewage problems due to the damage caused by similar works.
I must therefore repeat that repaving was not done well and not supervised/inspected well by the Council. The contractor can still be made to repair the damage done and put right the work parts badly executed. Not to make them do so would be cavallier of the Council and our representatives on it.
Also, one of the tubs was moved badly - probably dragged along rather than lifted - and has now disintegrated. Some bollards along the kerb suffered minor damage too.
We had spent years of wrangling with the Council and matching funds had to be raised to have the Triangle repaved. The notice board, the bollards and the tubs, were paid for by the money raised from the residents and the traders. We shall fundraise again if need be, but we do pay our local dues to the Council and have a right to expect a decent service in return. If unable to ensure we get it, the Council and our representatives on it should, at the very least, tell us why.
That said, I am grateful for your prompt response Alessandra. I know that it is hard to affect changes in our Council's outdated outdated practices and get balls rolling in the long grass. It would be easier if both our councillors took notice of the residents' complaints and acted on them.
Paving in the area is generally unsightly & uneven with my 83 year old mum recently tripping on a pavement edge in Roseberry Rd, luckily not breaking anything but bruised from head to foot and in pain for days. This part of the ward is in a conversation area & requires residents to make planning applications for the slightest changes but fails to preserve the the roads and paving to the high standards that it imposes on homeowners. Our road, Donovan Ave has one end of paving (though tar repairs are increasing ) and the upper end is a patchwork of cracked multi sections of differing asphalt finishes & repairs. How do our local streets get proper long term paving that will last and look attractive as has recently been done in Cranbourne road?
-
1
-
2
-
3
-
4
of 4 Next