Alexandra North street survey

Anyone living in the northern part of Alexandra ward (as well as part of Bounds Green ward) is invited to take part in a new, very brief traffic survey created by local residents. That is to say, residents of the roads bounded by Bounds Green and Durnsford roads and the Golf Course (i.e. Winton Avenue, Bidwell Gardens, Blake road, Woodfield Way, Churston Gardens and neighbouring roads).

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  • There are ta few queries I woudl like to raise or have answered in the face of the proposed LTN. Points raised are as folloows:

    According to a statement by the Council: “This area of the borough suffers from significant problems of rat running, high levels of congestion and low air quality. Much of the traffic in this area is through traffic from the A406 north circular by passing Bounds Green Road using Winton Avenue and Blake Road.”

    The other : 

     “Some journeys by car will be impacted by the proposals. However, all addresses will be accessible by motor vehicle for access of local residents, delivery vehicles and servicing. Local stakeholders will be involved in development of the scheme to ensure benefit realisation and resolution of any local issues in scheme implementation.”

    My questions or queries are based on the fact that not all of the traffic is through traffic to the North Cric. There is a lot of traffic the uses Brownlow road to pass straight over the North Cricular rather than to access it i.e. residents in Soutgate, Arnos Grove and Palmers Green. Are they to be forced around the proposed LTN? Or will residents on this side of the North Cricular that want to shop at Morrisons in Palmers Green no longer be able to do so unless they walk, cycle or take the bus? 

    If the roads are going to be closed to traffic other than for residents will all CPZ parking be suspended or cancelled indefinitely if these measures become permanent? If through traffic is ultimately to be prevented or banned why then will we need CPZ? Or will traffic still be allowed to park in the area to access trians/Tube? If so how are they to confirm if they are parking to commute/shop/visit the area or residents outside of the current two hour restrictions? 

    How will this programme be monitored and will we need to register our cars? If so when and where is this to be done. The idea that I will have to spend and inordinate amount of time disputing fines fills me with dread. I make very sure when going anywhere in London that I sort out my parking as tickets and fines get issued with alacrity by officers endeavoring to hit targets. They do!! Getting them cleared or disputing them however can often be a soul destroying exercice when dealing with "online systems and processes". This has to be avoided at all costs. 

    How will we deal with the people making multiple journeys within and around the LTN area that are ultimately 3 to 5 miles or less? I know they are being made because I have been too lazy on occasion to walk or cycle and not because of the lack of cycle lanes or decent footpaths but simply because I couldn't be....... I know there are a lot of journeys being made by many residents of less than 3 to 5 miles. How will we/they be encourgaed to cease and desist with such a lazy approcah? Bike Hire points? Or will this travel be deemed acceptbale and tolerable? 

    And lastly I am struggling to understnad how drivers either not familiar with the area or people visiting the area will be guided and treated when errors or mistake are made. Driving in London is hard enough with the existing volumes of signs so how will it be made abundantly clear that the LTN is in place? More signs the size of postage stamps or great big signs hanging off gantrys? I love living in the area but I would never have referred to Bounds Green as pretty or beautiful. Sorry but I wouldn't. The thought however of an invasion of a plethora of road traffic signs on top of the existing ones from Colney Hatch Lane through to Arnos Grove, Palmers Green etc is just grim. 

    In essenence I am get the need for the proposals to be implemeted but my faith in the system to advise motorists, mointor behaviour and deal with it infringements is nonexistent. I accept that any rant or moan on my part will make little or any difference and that this LTN is another measure that will happen. We are however less than three weeks away from the LTN and I haven't seen a single sign out on the roads to let people know about its immenent arrival or implementation. I know there have been interviews on BBC London Tonight but that is simply not enough so let's not use that and this forum as 'proof' of engagement. Clear warnings well in advance is only fair to all motorists and residents and that is currenlty not in place.  

    • 7388385896?profile=RESIZE_400x



      Grey = Enfield LTN

      Green = LTN proposed by Haringey







      Hi Mark,

      Thanks very much for your post, raising lots of issues - all questions that need to be sorted out!

      To clarify (in case I get your points wrong), there are two LTNs being proposed - (1) in Enfield, whose bid for funding has already been approved by TfL. and (2) in Haringey, which was proposed for the area bounded by Bounds Green and Durnsford roads, and Golf Course allotments. Haringey's bid has been put forward in response to Enfield's, to deal with any displaced traffic caused by the latter. They have not given details of what measures they are intending to install, and TfL has not yet responded to their bid. So only the Enfield scheme is definitely going to be implemented.

      Haringey's proposed LTN would probably take this form, which as you say would, I imagine, be helpful in your neighbourhood.  It looks as if they may also have some ideas for Bounds Green Road - I have no idea what these would be.

      However I cannot see how this LTN in your neighbourhood would have any significance for displaced traffic from the Enfield LTN - all it does is stop drivers cutting a corner at Bounds Green station junction. So why Haringey argue it would is rather baffling.

      To address your specific points:

      Parking - the existing parking arrangements would continue, as I understand it. (no registering of cars would be required). Drivers from outside the area would not be prevented from entering it, just from driving straight through from one side to the other (see link to description of proposed LTN above).

      Getting to Morrisons in Palmers Green - I'm afraid I'm not familiar with this, I suggest you put your query on one of the two local community websites, where such things are being discussed (links are to the discussions):

      Palmers Green Community

      Bowes and Bounds connected

      and you can also try the Better Streets for Enfield group.

      Discouraging short journeys - one of the points of LTNs is that it makes driving through them a little bit more inconvenient for local drivers, while making walking and cycling a lot more attractive. More cycling infrastructure beyond the LTN would also be desirable, so that cycling further afield would also be attractive! Haringey are planning to install cycle lanes in Bounds Green Road, and Alexandra Low Traffic group have asked Haringey Council if - among other things - they can install cycle lanes in Durnsford road (there's a link to the ALTg from this page).

      Drivers not familiar with the area - satnavs would tell them where they can go, so presumably this would help a lot - ?

      Hope this all helps.

      Best, Annabel

      Enfield Council's proposal for a Low Traffic Neighbourhood in the Bowes Park area
      Residents in the Bowes Park neighbourhood – which straddles the Haringey and Enfield border – have long had to contend with major rat-running between…
    • Re: getting to Morrisons in Palmers Green. I can see that from Durnsford road, you would currently go up Brownlow road to get to it. In phase 2 of the scheme, Enfield are thinking of installing a bus gate in this road, so you would need to go a bit farther round - via Bounds Green Road and Green Lanes - ? Would that be a major problem?

      Re: people in Arnos Grove, Southgate and Palmers Green getting to Morrisons - I don't see why they would go up Brownlow to get there? Possibly from New Southgate, but there are alternatives...


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